i mean this is boehner, paul ryan, cantor and pelosi, reid, key members there, this is like two groups, they are not briefing their conferences much. they are not going out there and telling people what they are doing. these are private negotiations. from what i understand, they are pretty active private negotiations. this is where we are right now. again, we should point out based on everything i know, no deal until after thanksgiving. and by the way, then it becomes key. this is really interesting. if you don't have a deal after thanksgiving, think about what m cos next -- think about what comes next, you have christmas holiday shopping, that's a huge time for retailers, if people think they are going to get taxed, a fiscal cliff scenario where all the tax rates go up, every single bracket goes up, right, are people going to spend money? that's a real question. liz: we have a guest coming up to talk exactly about that. we will ask him that question. >> yeah, and i think this clock really starts ticking after this week because that's when people start thinking how much money -- it's a